Exploring biodiversity and beyond

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Good morning,

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everybody, and welcome to this episode of Ask the Expert.

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Today, I'm joined by an expert in the responsible business team here at Veolia.

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Tabitha Searle, we'll be talking to you and I about all things biodiversity.

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Biodiversity is important to us at Veolia.

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It's one of the pillars that contributes to our purpose.

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Our purpose is ecological transformation.

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But why is it important?

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Will it really help us achieve net zero?

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In this episode of Ask the Expert, we're going to be finding out

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more about the link between social value and biodiversity

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and how biodiversity can help achieve net zero

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and the initiatives that Veolia are involved in.

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Before we dive in, Tabitha, welcome.

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Would you like to introduce yourself and tell our viewers and listeners

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a little bit about what they can expect to hear from you today?

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Good morning, Martyn.

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And so I’m Tabitha, corporate social responsibility manager for Veolia.

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And joining this ask the expert session.

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Definitely don't feel like an expert,

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but biodiversity is someone that takes everyone something that takes everyone.

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So today Martyn and

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I are going to talk about what biodiversity is,

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what it means to Veolia, how it fits into the bigger sustainability picture,

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what we're doing and what we see our customers doing as well.

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Excellent. I'm looking forward to it.

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So let's start with the basics.

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Tabby, Tabitha, what is biodiversity?

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So biodiversity is simply the variety of life on earth.

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That's a measure of variation.

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And at the genetic species, habitat, ecosystem and even all over earth level.

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And so includes all living species of animals, plants,

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fungi, micro-organisms, very, very small to the very, very big.

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So, okay, I get that.

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So it's pretty much everything.

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Why is that important then?

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Well, so biodiversity is essential

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for all of the processes that support life on Earth.

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So that includes us humans,

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and we obtain many of our basic needs from the natural world.

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So water, food, fuel, shelter, medicine.

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And on top of that, ecosystems provide crucial services like climate

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regulation, water purification, nutrient cycling, pollination.

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And then a lot of biodiversity within any of those ecosystems

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weakens its ability to provide us with those essentials to survive.

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And within that ecosystem, the range of species

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and organisms work together to maintain balance and support life.

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So if you remove just one species, you can disrupt that balance in ways

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we often don't really understand or recognise yet.

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And biologically diverse ecosystems are also more resilient,

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so they're more likely to survive and adapt to changing conditions.

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Things like flooding or droughts caused by us, by climate change.

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So I remember a

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comment, I can't think who the quote is from right now, but effectively,

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if we remove all the bees, humans are gone in five years.

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That's what we're saying. And that's why it's important.

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It's it's all interconnected and we all rely on each other.

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Yes, exactly.

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And even just

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even within bees, you know, there's lots of different bee species out there.

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We get quite hung up on honeybees, so we put lots of hives in places,

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but then we

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potentially inadvertently disrupt the balance of all the other types of bee.

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So it's a very complicated web that we're not really good enough at balancing out.

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So, I mean, I'm thinking now the stories, you know, of the species that have been

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introduced to other parts of the world, but then drive out another species

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Um, yeah that’s a story for

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another time, I'm sure it's called Patagonia Cats I've got in my head.

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But I'll let we'll get to that point.

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Maybe.

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I know it ends with basically a lot of people ending up in hospital

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because their roofs collapsed

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because the cat eats something that used to eat the weevils anyway.

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As always my mind is wondered

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off.

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Biodiversity and how it all work and how it all connects.

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I get that. But so how does it connect to social value?

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Where does social value come into biodiversity?

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So I guess firstly we often see a bit of a misunderstanding

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that social value is just about projects that directly support the S in ESG.

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So the social bit.

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But really it all explicitly includes activities

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which are some poor environmental outcomes because those will always indirectly

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help society as well.

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So that includes projects that you can do related to biodiversity.

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But also we

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know when we see that projects that support biodiversity

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pretty much always deliver direct benefits to society as well.

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Theres loads of research showing that living in greener, more biodiverse

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areas improves social, mental and physical wellbeing

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and actually bringing it closer to home.

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Our Veolia Orchard's programme, for example, where we plant fruit trees

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in urban schools around the country, we see that delivering on biodiversity

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obviously, but we also see a range of other connected social value outcomes.

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So well-being for the children as they spend time

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outside, educational opportunities, as they learn about tree life

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cycles and planting, health benefits, as they have easier access to fresh fruit,

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other health benefits from improved air quality.

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So it all adds up just from that one initial input.

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Yeah, I see.

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I see the connection now between the biodiversity and the social value and

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yeah,

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real check and balance in it.

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So much,

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so much penetration into into different areas.

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We all love to see animals in the wild though it is one of those,

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those universal moments.

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We all get excited about when at Kingswood when we all look out the window

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and suddenly somebody says there is a deer and the deer are walking across the car park.

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It is a moment we all enjoy that and get that little boost out of it.

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So yeah, I think there's tangible in intangibles here I get that.

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So that's the biodiversity to social value.

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How, how does Net Zero connect then?

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Net Zero is important driver for everyone at the moment,

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but why should we consider biodiversity when setting Net Zero goals?

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So Net

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Zero and biodiversity are really closely entwined,

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but I think this often seems to get forgotten.

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If nature supports the regulation of the overall climate and then habitat

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loss due to human activity which uses that regulation and then climate change,

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which further reduces biodiversity

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loss, it all ends up as a sort of dual crisis.

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So you need to tackle them together.

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And we know that biodiversity can be

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a major tool in helping to achieve Net Zero.

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So more biodiverse ecosystems can sequester and store

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more carbon, protecting, managing, restoring forests.

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For example, offers roughly two thirds

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of the total mitigation potential for nature based solutions.

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We know that despite massive and ongoing losses, forests still cover

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more than 30% of the planet's land and then peatland.

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So wetlands, marshes, swamps, etc.

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cover only 3% of the world's land.

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But some estimates show they store twice as much carbon as all of those forests.

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So preserving all those different

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natural areas is going to help support biodiversity.

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And then we also see that sometimes projects that we do

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that are aiming to deliver on Net Zero things like

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a forestation projects where we plant huge numbers of trees

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actually can have negative biodiversity consequences

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because they're sort of mono-cultures, that end up in these.

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They might have trees, but they’re otherwise quite barren.

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So you've got to sort of consider that as one.

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And actually it's been interesting.

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We're starting to see thinking about how we can be more strategic

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in delivering biodiversity and Net Zero together.

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So recently one of our restored landfill sites,

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we installed solar panels.

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So at Ockendon landfill, 59 megawatts of solar panel went in.

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And so we're able to do that Net Zero via renewable electricity

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and the biodiversity by having restored the landfill sites in one location.

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There's even a bit of research out there suggesting that the shades

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provided by the panels has additional biodiversity benefits.

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Slowing the growing season down allows a wider range of plants

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to grow, protecting from the heat and evaporate transformation.

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that sort of thing.  Fabulous.

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I saw something on on LinkedIn, actually, I think the weekend,

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I think

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it may have been in Spain, but it was a solar

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panel farm where they'd installed solar panels in a farm

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and it was allowing the crops to grow

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underneath

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the mass.

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I’m getting this all the wrong way around but, basically

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the courgettes were growing 30% larger.

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So the shade that was being provided

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and it was almost a Net Zero farm in the way that these this was all working.

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So really interesting, really there is a strong link

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between biodiversity Net Zero in both directions.

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Just like monocultures isn't going to be good,

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but then you can have other benefits too.

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So has to be.

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We work together.

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Everything is connected Tabitha, isn't it?

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Yeah, definitely.

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And yeah, Thank you.

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So what are Veolia doing

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to help support and improve biodiversity?

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What initiatives do we have in place?

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So there's loads going on overall,

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as part of our Impact 2023 strategy, we had a number of specific targets

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and objectives around biodiversity on our sites

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and so implement implementing ecological management plans on sites,

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deploying a toolkit for higher priority sites and cutting

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the use of phytosanitary products and raising environmental awareness.

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And we're on track to hit or exceed all of those targets

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by the end of this year, which is great.

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And we've definitely seen and having that consistent approach

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to tackling biodiversity across all sites has made a big difference.

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Less sort of piecemeal them.

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Sometimes I think we say,

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and then we also have more flashy initiatives,

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if you like, all over the country.

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And so the green wall at our Leeds Energy Recovery facility

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for anyone who has seen that before, is really impressive to see.

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At our Tidworth wastewater treatment works.

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We've got this drainage pool system which attracts a massive diversity of wildlife.

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And so, yes, the list goes on.

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There's lots going on all over the country and also closer

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to home for me, for our Kingswood offices, it's been exciting

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to watch the evolution of our two LEKO devices.

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Um so this is a tool which continuously captures

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the sounds of key bio indicator species.

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So it then tells us both the species type and abundance of those species,

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but that's also able to tell us what it means for our overall ecosystem

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health, overall biodiversity, air quality, water quality

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based on the specific needs and features of those bio indicator species.

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We found out

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that we've got nine different bat species, which we wouldn't have expected.

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For anyone who's been to Kingswood, it's surrounded by some green spaces,

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but it's just a big office building, you know, neighboring the M6 pretty much.

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So it's amazing to see how much we do have there.

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And we are now looking at the information collected during this year

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to help us build a data led improvement plan for next year.

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I think that's the you know, the thing

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that's been really exciting about the LEKO project for me,

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obviously, is when I've been quite close to alongside yourself and Alexius,

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seeing it come to life

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and gathering that data and realizing that we do have the ability

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to put a metric against the biodiversity that we have around us

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and then act like a business and do good business

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by figuring out what steps we can take to increase that biodiversity.

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And I know the tool itself.

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I remember a meeting not too long ago with you when you told me

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that they're adding new species they can detect.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So if they started adding in an amphibian species

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and a shrew and a field mouse

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and they are due to add on rats as well, which might have people less excited

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but still an important part of the ecosystem.

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But yes, it has been really interesting seeing

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and also seeing how that's changed through the year.

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It's been a good learning experience to understand which species

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are more or less prevalent in different times of year.

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And we have two boxes in the garden and they’re only what

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Martyn? 50 metres apart from each other.

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Yeah, 50 meters, yeah.

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But one is a bit more in a grass area.

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One's a little bit more tree sheltered.

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And even just with that distance, they show slightly different profiles. And

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it's fabulous

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at finding out the bats that we've got around us.

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The insects that are around us really brings to life the biodiversity.

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And I think it makes for me particularly, you know, I feel more responsible now

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because I know that

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even though I don't see them, Yes, being a great engagement tool. It’s definitely,

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you know, from a data and analysis perspective, it's really powerful.

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But just to help everyone understand what's around them,

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the sort of conversations that it's generated, it's been pretty interesting.

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Exactly. Okay.

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So there's another phrase I keep hearing that I'm

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not the most educated on, so I need some help here Tabitha.

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What is biodiversity net gain

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and what are we doing about that?

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So biodiversity net gain is a new piece of legislation

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coming into effect in January that will require new developments

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to deliver a minimum of 10% biodiversity net gain as part of the planning process.

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So whatever biodiversity value was there before development,

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after development, we'll need to measure a 10% increase.

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Ideally that should be delivered on the site itself,

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but sometimes that won't be possible, in which case developers can create

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offsite habitats

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with the same level of improvement either on their land or other land,

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or as a last resort, purchase statutory biodiversity credits from the government.

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And so for

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us that's going to affect any planning applications

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we put in.

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So our planning team has been keeping on top of what they'll need to do.

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And we know that with the resource and waste strategy policies

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that are coming into play,

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we're definitely going to see the need for new infrastructure,

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which is going to mean new planning applications.

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And then interestingly for us, on the flip side,

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we're also looking at

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whether our landfills that are in the process of restoration

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could be used at biodiversity banks themselves.

00:15:21:21 - 00:15:25:19
So either to fulfill our own biodiversity net gain requirements

00:15:26:04 - 00:15:30:10
or in other companies requirements, or even be used as biodiversity credits.

00:15:31:02 - 00:15:33:01
So there's definitely a lot to factor in.

00:15:33:01 - 00:15:36:01
And so for a habitat to be legally secured

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and maintained, so for habitat

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to be used as a biodiversity value in biodiversity net

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gain has to be legally secured and maintained for at least 30 years.

00:15:47:11 - 00:15:49:20
That's not always going to be feasible.

00:15:49:20 - 00:15:52:05
But overall it's really exciting development

00:15:52:05 - 00:15:54:06
with big potential for biodiversity.

00:15:54:06 - 00:15:57:07
But we're definitely going to have a steep learning curve come January

00:15:57:09 - 00:15:59:05
once it comes into effect.

00:15:59:05 - 00:16:01:08
We like a steep learning curve. Yeah.

00:16:03:13 - 00:16:06:09
We've talked a little bit about what Veolia is doing and we've talked

00:16:06:09 - 00:16:10:23
about how important biodiversity is and with this biodiversity net gain,

00:16:11:12 - 00:16:14:08
it's actually, I guess coming through the policy elements

00:16:14:08 - 00:16:17:23
and the legislative elements and the regulation elements to be also

00:16:19:10 - 00:16:21:16
what can our customers do, what do they need to do?

00:16:23:14 - 00:16:27:02
We know that lots of our customers are already doing a lot in this area,

00:16:27:02 - 00:16:29:05
but there's always more that can be done.

00:16:29:05 - 00:16:32:04
There’s the sort of basic standard approach

00:16:32:13 - 00:16:35:05
understanding what your biodiversity impacts are,

00:16:35:05 - 00:16:37:09
where they lie, is it in your site,

00:16:37:15 - 00:16:40:20
supply chain, etcetera, depending on what type of business you are.

00:16:41:11 - 00:16:45:09
And then setting targets and objectives to help direct action

00:16:45:09 - 00:16:47:14
keep everyone moving in the same direction.

00:16:47:14 - 00:16:49:15
You can't do everything all at once.

00:16:50:05 - 00:16:53:07
Need to set objectives are going to deliver certain outcomes

00:16:53:16 - 00:16:56:14
and then monitoring those outcomes of those actions.

00:16:57:13 - 00:16:58:04
So we've talked

00:16:58:04 - 00:17:01:15
about tools like LEKO, but there's also lots of other tools available.

00:17:02:04 - 00:17:06:05
Ecologist assessment, obviously staff led monitoring tools out there,

00:17:07:06 - 00:17:10:12
and that will both make sure interventions are working,

00:17:10:12 - 00:17:14:01
but also engage employees and other stakeholders on the journey.

00:17:14:08 - 00:17:17:14
Like we said, we found the LEKO devices being a great engagement tool

00:17:19:03 - 00:17:22:13
and, and then importantly as well, I think through all of this,

00:17:22:22 - 00:17:27:19
finding ways to integrate biodiversity plans and actions into other strategies.

00:17:28:04 - 00:17:32:23
So whether it's your Net Zero plan, employee wellbeing, social value,

00:17:33:10 - 00:17:36:22
integrating biodiversity into multiple strategies

00:17:37:03 - 00:17:39:16
and integrating multiple strategies into biodiversity

00:17:40:04 - 00:17:43:01
helps make sure we're thinking about biodiversity

00:17:43:01 - 00:17:47:11
as part of that bigger picture and also I think makes each of those areas

00:17:48:00 - 00:17:50:12
stickier as they become dependent on each other,

00:17:50:18 - 00:17:53:16
one is less likely to get dropped to the expense of another

00:17:53:16 - 00:17:55:07
if you know that they're all adding together.

00:17:56:22 - 00:17:57:10
And then I

00:17:57:10 - 00:18:00:12
think making sure suppliers know that biodiversity

00:18:00:12 - 00:18:04:03
is important to you and enlisting them in your strategy as well.

00:18:04:12 - 00:18:07:03
That might be through specific supply policies

00:18:07:03 - 00:18:09:05
or setting expectations around

00:18:10:09 - 00:18:12:10
your suppliers site operations,

00:18:13:00 - 00:18:17:04
or if you have suppliers that have staff on your site for any reason,

00:18:17:04 - 00:18:21:08
seeing what they can do to directly support your biodiversity goals as well.

00:18:23:14 - 00:18:25:03
Great advice there, Tabitha.

00:18:25:03 - 00:18:25:13
Thank you.

00:18:25:13 - 00:18:29:05
I'm sure many of people who are watching and listening back to this

00:18:29:17 - 00:18:34:14
when it becomes a podcast will be having food for thought there.

00:18:36:05 - 00:18:38:07
That's all the time we've got today.

00:18:38:08 - 00:18:42:06
Thank you for joining me today, Tabitha, and sharing your expert knowledge

00:18:42:06 - 00:18:44:08
on this important topic.

00:18:45:08 - 00:18:46:11
If anybody listening

00:18:46:11 - 00:18:49:15
wants to find out more about biodiversity and the ways to improve it,

00:18:50:05 - 00:18:53:12
we'll be adding some links in the comments section for you to read through

00:18:53:16 - 00:18:55:03
and review at your own leisure.

00:18:56:18 - 00:18:58:20
Our next episode, the last

00:18:58:24 - 00:19:03:22
Ask the Expert for 2023, is on the 14th of December at 11 a.m.

00:19:04:09 - 00:19:07:22
and I'll be joined by not one, not two,

00:19:08:22 - 00:19:11:16
but three Veolia experts. Are we allowed to put three experts

00:19:11:16 - 00:19:14:09
in the same place?  Talking about food waste

00:19:14:22 - 00:19:17:14
from the impact of food waste to businesses and residents

00:19:18:05 - 00:19:21:21
projects we've supported and food waste reduction tips

00:19:22:18 - 00:19:25:06
for everybody listening and watching across the festive period.

00:19:25:21 - 00:19:28:04
Please don't forget to tune in.

00:19:28:04 - 00:19:31:11
You can also listen back to any and all of our podcast episodes

00:19:31:18 - 00:19:35:16
of Ask the Expert at Veolia dot co dot UK

00:19:35:23 - 00:19:38:14
Forward slash podcast Hyphen hub.

00:19:39:22 - 00:19:42:05
Thank you very much, Tabby. Take care.

00:19:42:05 - 00:19:44:18
I'll see you soon. Thanks, Martyn, Bye!